Battyman bashing while ‘cakes’ are out ..........

a sagging example

I often asked why is it that despite the continued homophobia and fear of the feminine in certain types of hypermasculine men those men even while dressed with their pants and boxers advertising their own ‘cakes’ that they are off limits or firm round mounds they don’t realise what there are actually doing. Some men go as far as to deliberately or not allow the top of the crack to show as well in supposed homophobic Jamaica. How on one hand men bash each other sometimes out of the slightest argument in public by calling their opponents a faggot, fish, battyman and so on in the ever extending list of names and rehashing old ones such as “He’she” given the visibility of transgender persons in Jamaica; the accuser is showing the very anatomy of the body (the batty or batty jaw) to the world which often attract the straying eye of others either in revolt or quiet attraction especially by men on the down low. The matter came home for me on the extended eater weekend as I entered and subsequently exited the Tastee patty store in Spanish Town.

Upon entering the establishment outside of the juice ladies by the door asking for patronage when leaving the store, a heated argument was in action involving the DVD men and others. The usual battyman calling reductive power reducing narrative occurred as part of the public projection of strength and or enhancing bravado. The accuser making the burning out remarks was wearing a rather tight skin fight black leggings of sorts with the waist in the presently typical popular below the ass cheeks position and was in a blue also close fitting boxers and his cakes were nicely firm looking. The accused ‘battyman’ was not so dressed in terms of his jean being below the ass or buttocks lining and he responded by rebutting that the accused is the ‘more bigger battyman’ implying his mode of dress says he is gay and advertising his ass to other downlow gays. 

I have witnessed the low wearing pants types engaged in quarrels who accused other men of being gay but not the response of throwing back a response using profiling and aesthetics o effectively. I was lucky to catch that part after exiting the store and found it funny while curious. The laughter was also telling from the juice sellers by the door, the DVD vendors and other passers-by who heard the exchange.

The clearly embarrassed low pants wearing man rebutted by accusing the accuser of having AIDS and performing oral sex on women, two other masculine reduction narratives in public spats when the persons want to shift the argument in question by adding other embarrassing elements to project strength; what makes it more unique is that he was not able to pull his pants up to cover up the nice firm cakes so as not to effectively conform their accusation just by his aesthetics, he was also lightly bleached with numerous tattoos. Strangely the anti tight pants wearing men narrative as part of the homophobic and murder music narrative is still alive even as the practice has become a cultural phenomenon with some large acceptance driven by the same main protagonists being the dancehall artists mostly the older ones were vehemently opposed to the practice in the first place; strange that celebrity names such as Bounty Killer, Elephant Man and the monster Shock Crew who voiced songs using modes of dress to profile and stereotype gay men alongside effeminacy now wear the very tight pants, leggings and sometimes well below the buttocks clothes with often bright coloured boxers a practice supposedly derived by the American prison systems and African American thug culture. Several rappers have incorporated the ass showing look and it is seek as a marker of being high on the thuggery social pecking order. 

Monster Shack in 1997 braking the hypermasculine presentation rules in dancehall

The monster Shack crew were a walking contradiction in terms of their group image; even as while they coloured their hair which was not so a popular thing to do in their heyday they could be credited for slowly pushing the tight pants phenomena in men long before Vybz Kartel used his image change to the ‘Gay look’ and carrying his legions of fans with him mimicking him. 

The supposed 'Gay Look' Kartel was raked over the coals for

Other acts all have joined in a recent photo of an aging Babycham struck me given his position on gays, Beenieman and others as well, the younger dancehall acts for them it is normative despite in musical clashes the stereotype is used as ammunition to belittle musical their opponents even while dressed in the mode on stage, contradiction right before our eyes!

In a previous post (The low wearing pants issue ...) I had addressed the below the buttocks dressing as at the time legislators wanted to make it illegal.

Here is an excerpt:

The government these days feel it can just become judge juror and lawmaker for every god damn thing these days, Jamaica in my estimation does not have a lot of men wearing low cut pants anymore that style has died from last year 2009, most jeans nowadays are straight tight jeans in brands like Gucci that have very straight cut leg lengths and maybe wider waists for hip hugging.

The jeans itself just sits at the hip not below to show butt cheeks as said by many commentators and in fact the tight jeans being worn now if they were worn in let’s say three or four years ago a man would have been beaten or attacked for being gay. The notion of a man so well put together then he is considered gay or his sexuality comes into question.

This is a social issue I think and there shouldn’t be interference by the legislators on everything. This one should just play itself out but the police are already using the public decency act to arrest men coming from dancehall events especially who are well dressed. What about the events coming up like carnival where persons are scantily dressed in tights or butt showing attire, what about the dancehall outdoor events where live sex has occurred those haven’t been deemed out of place yet or we should wait until the administration decides to go there to lock up people.

Will lesbians who dress supposedly masculine in low pants as well be arrested too?

Freedom of choice in the Charter of Rights I thought was a right and why is it the lawmakers must just go around and make laws for everything to drown persons’ freedoms?

ENDS

One wonders if changing aesthetics may also playing a role in softening multi-generational stereotyping and homophobia via social media; as visibility is raised and old belief that one can easily tell one is gay by looking that is being debunked as persons from all classes and appearance and coming out gay or bisexual. Jamaica is a paradox indeed.

from 2009:

from the now defunct Observer chat

Peace & tolerance

H

Shebada receive death threats from ‘cruiser’ ...........

Shebada in action in one of his plays

 the cruiser in question

Keith ‘Shebada’ Ramsey found himself the brunt of death threats via a voice note from a supposed downlow man who allegedly hail from St Catherine or have links to that part of the island. It is believed things went sour between the two when Shebada refused his advances in a kind of ‘gay for pay’ posture as some of these so called overhyped thugs do get into. If he knew as the man throwing the threats that Shebada was gay or a “battyman” why would he be in an extended debate with Keith Ramsey in the first place, a question on the minds of many upon the circulating of the voice note. Why would a man who is parading as a homophobe go to the point of saving previous voice notes suggesting some sort of sexual discussion allegedly done by Shebada; there is clearly more to this than meets the eye.

Shebada @ 1:39 proceeded to accuse the man of being a gay hustler under the quiet, and I am all too well aware of them indeed but not this one personally. Mr Ramsey had some choice phrases for the man too disturbing to type out but the video has it all. Shebada then nailed it by suggesting that if he is a battyman then why hasn’t the pretentiously upset man blocked Mr Ramsey as yet? The fundamental question the age in my view. Listen @ 3:17 onwards. th

In some other circles the cynicism is clear indeed the homophobia as well with some persons making comments similar to the ‘cruiser’ but Shebada is used to that king of thing, in 2013 the matter of his perceived sexual orientation came up and he has not confirmed or for all intents and purposes denied it. That infamous public squabble with Beenieman some years ago is still fresh in the minds of many where Beenieman labelled Shebada as a faggot and he (Beenie)wanted nothing to do with him as he was supposedly approached for a performance contract at one Ramsey’s shows.

Popular Jamaican comedian Keith “Shebada” Ramsey sat down for an interview with Winford Williams in 2013 on CVM TV’s On Stage show.

At the time Shebada was widely regarding as the new face of comedy in Jamaica but his fame didn’t come without some harsh backlash from dancehall.

Since getting his big break in acting, Shebada has been the subject of homophobic lyrics from the likes of Bounty Killer, Beenie Man, Vybz Kartel and more dancehall acts.

According to the “Bashment Granny” star, dancehall artists used him as props to make their music sound good. But he flip the script and use those artists as promotion.

“I won’t really say they hate me but they use me as props to make the music sound good and just to gain recognition and hype,” Shebada told Winford. “The first time I heard a song that say ‘bullet in Shebada face’… at first it was frightening but then I looked at it and say if they can promote me then overseas people are going to want to know who they are talking about.”

Shebada, who is widely regarded as gay, says he is able to move around in Jamaica freely without being attacked or harassed. The comedian also explained why he thinks Jamaica is not the most homophobic place on earth. His large following and or fan base mostly women like him and his palys travel all around and are often sold out; Jamaicans tend to take effeminacy wrapped in comedic characters on stage or screen easier than in person in terms of close family or such exhibiting same character traits. Shebada’s predecessor such as Ranny Williams, Oliver Samuels, Maama Man and other effeminate character actors sometime complete with wigs, dresses and exaggerated make up leave audiences in stitches at times.

“Jamaica pretend to be the most homophobic place,” Shebada said. “Because why are they fighting for a visa to go to places where gay is legal… Artists regularly work for promoters who are gay.”

Mr Ramsey has hit a nail on the head there in a sense, the bravado element in dancehall only seeks to reinforce the bad man posture supposedly as the only or main way to counteract the marginalization of males in general from the lower socioeconomic spectrum of society. A well entrenched bravado and insecurity that has played out ever so tendentiously in the above video. The “argue with Hilary” comment @ 0:24 is a hint by Mr Ramsey to my mind of his nickname in certain circles suggesting a powerful woman i.e. Hilary Clinton and the recent US elections.

The man accused Shebada also of offering some sort of oral sex hints/services

Shebada also says he has plans to launch a career in dancehall at the time.

This one looks and sounds like a ‘pot cussing kettle’ joke.

In November this happened:

More anon

Peace & tolerance

H

also see:
Shebada lashes out at 'dancehall hypocrites

Male West Indian Entertainers Donning Female Attire As Part Of Their Acts

From the sublime to the ridiculous 2009

New Age Gays in Dancehall, The Shebada phenomenon 2010

US Promotions Co hits back at "Fire" for Bashment Granny 

Shebada's birthday bash 'drags' in crowd says the Star 

Fake Shebada causes trouble

Thug decoy targeting cruisers again, some take action

The age old problem of so called decoys or ‘double sports’ who are either gays on the downlow, experimenters or opportunists looking to exploit other gay and bisexual men is still with us. As the holiday season is upon us there has been a trend in recent years of this phenomenon of decoys or gay/bisexual men who go berserk in robbing persons even in the middle of sexual liaisons. This latest episode occurred on Saturday December 10 human rights day of all days. Activities tend to increase in the holiday season as trends show over the years as men who would not ordinarily or regularly go outside their sex seeking behaviours then do so even as word also spread by social media of so called successful hunts, penis size notoriety and so on become draw cards or a pull for the curious; another infiltration worry for some existing and ‘expert’ cruisers who do not like or take kindly to a watering down of their once secret spaces. This is not surprising of course as from recorded history this exploitative method in many respects by men to gain material things and so on existed from the Greeks in the socially tolerated phenomenon of pederasty through to present day known as ‘trade’ ‘thots’ ‘heaviots’ and now ‘thuggy.’

Cruisers have already had to contend with reduced spaces over the years in pursuit of the thrill of the manhunt and or hookup from the sharp increase in crimes near or in said zones where gay men gather for quick sex and the on again off again, if not sporadic development coupled with intermittent clashes with other MSM/transgender populations for space use and a feeling of infiltration by those groups. The local authorities have since cleared many often very old spaces in recent months via bulldozers, many other cruisers who use this route to fulfil sex seeking behaviours are either in jail for alleged crimes committed, are scared stiff as times change or are dead after getting involved in gun battles (yes they too do fool around) and others just simply stay away.

A man in his twenties is the latest decoy operative who has been targeting the outdoor cruisers specifically and especially the younger guys found himself the subject of a thrashing of sorts and was chased by two men who stoned him after he tried to rob one of them of a smartphone. One could argue that a smartphone is not an item to have on one’s person when one is on the hunt in certain parts even if it is equipped with tracking capabilities or is locked, the robbers are also savvy and will demand under pain of violence the soon to be former owner of the phone to unlock it or else. The decoy made an approach to one of the newer faced men on the strip in downtown Kingston and demanded he hand over his money and phones at knifepoint. The other man who was nearby and who was supposed to be the victim’s intended hookup at the time intervened, both men tackled the decoy/robber even as he tried to ‘loud up’ the situation alerting passersby on the main road that ‘battyboi dem ova yasso’ (gay men are over here) the phone’s screen unfortunately was damaged in the melee as the men struggled with the knife wielding miscreant to retrieve the phone.

The ‘loud up’ never worked this time around as opposed to previous incidents near or at the same spot, so the two men gave the robber a thrashing according to one of them who I was eventually able to speak to by WhatsApp. They were able to get the phone back and inflict some hits via stoning, they also got the knife as it fell from the would be robber as he made good his escape, this shows the younger cohort of gay and bisexual cruisers are not going to be pushovers by bad eggs within their ranks or decoys from outside who may have an idea of the inner ramblings of gay subculture. In a previous post I had carried a phone robbery matter in the Half Way Tree area by a known gay thug, he has since been arrested alongside other non gay phone robbers and roadside makeshift phone repair men in an elaborate network of robbers and front men the police discovered stretching as far as Manchester and eastwards to St Thomas.

Twice earlier this year there were robbery attempts of a lesser value of money by men who passed through the very spot where this latest incident occurred but hardened cruisers who know full well that some territories are treacherous terrain but still do go there and hope for the best. Cash was taken on both occasions but there was no physical injury, however the handcart lovers matter that was carried on this blog and the subsequent mobbing led to the bulldozing of a section of the area to supposedly stop the ‘battyman dem’ from going there; the spot has a history of gay men and exhibitionists who used the area for years in its various adjustments including a short lived car park activity which was allegedly ordered discontinued by a local don who is now incarcerated aboard.

Let us also recall the soon to be sold old cholera cemetery nearing the Canadian Embassy one of the oldest hookup spots for not only cruisers but commercial sex workers and homeless MSM/transgender as previous posts bring to bear. With the loss of spaces such as this the groups tends to eventually congregate elsewhere, trends suggest that with the reduction of the ‘bathroom’ cruiser phenomenon over the years as well the migration of sorts or crossing over to more hardcore hunting has been on the rise. Some cruisers have taken to going out of town to appease their tastes but that too has come with some challenges to include territorial clashes with other regulars and robberies as well or exposure leading to unneeded or unexpected heat and homophobia.

All I can suggest is that cruisers of one intends to cruise for the holidays be careful as to how and where you choose to be adventurous as tempting as it may be; it may not be worth it in the final analysis. As I used to end my posts back in the day “Be Vigilant, Be Safe”

Peace & tolerance

H

Ground provision vendor gets death threats

An alleged gay ground provision vendor was issued death threats some two weeks ago following his supposed refusal or inability to pay up extortion ‘fees’ demanded by thugs in the Spanish Town area. His noticeable absence in recent weeks led myself and others to inquire of him as visits to the market to patronise his handcart of items but noticed he was not among the middle man vendors; he like others would by directly from the farmers/higglers from rural Jamaica wholesale and then place a mark up for resale. Extortion has been and continue to be an issue for street, market and store vendors as well as established stores such as the previously nearby located BASCHO, that has since moved to Burke road closer to the police station which was forced to close its doors due to the scourge. With all that relocation to the Burke road and the very bus park for safety I imagine, the crime has come right behind their establishment.

The bizarre shootings in the Jamaica Urban Transit, JUTC bus park in recent weeks is clear evidence of the problem as gangs clash over control of the lucrative multi-million dollar illegal activity. Vendors are afraid to report the matter fearing repercussions so some relocate to another locale or parish for a time or go into hiding, but with diminished income persons are forced to resurface to earn a living. The Clansman and ratbat gangs are responsible for the latest challenges. The vendor was others was approached by a woman with a composition book and what looks like a receipt or ticket role and collects the daily $300 up $500 fee sometimes allowed to accumulate so as to make one collection on the weekend. Two weeks ago the vendor was ruffed up by thugs who operate in stealth with the woman after an argument developed with the parties. It was then the two thugs openly threatened the vendor who for all intents and purposes is not effeminate or has any disguising feature towards same.

In fact he is the stereotypical bleached face and sometimes skin archetype with tattoos and such so when during the heated exchange according to another vendor as a witness who I spoke to, she hinted that the battyman accusation was as usual in any other male versus male argument but the men were resolute and claimed that they knew the vendor had no woman and that ‘him fuck batty’ followed up by the usual colourful parlance. Trouble with this one I have apart from the obstruction of freedom of movement in a public thoroughfare by unauthorised persons is that the gang in question, Clansman, its leader Tesha Miller has had the same gay or indeed bisexual allegations thrown at him repeatedly. Since his short incarceration in the United States and subsequent deportation to Jamaica, it has been open war within his own ranks and with the rival ratbat gang with fight for turf, even as the police has an all points bulletin of sorts out for him but it is a mystery to find him and he has not turned himself in. His attorney who ironically is anti gay attorney Bert Samuels who has been counsel for Miller for quite some time and says he is a Christian yet he has not been able to bring in Miller to the authorities for questioning.

Especially after a phone was found in his rectum alleged at a lockup some years ago the accusations of his sexuality had been swirling and this was also just around the time of the trial of another reputed gangbanger Zeeks where his trial revealed homosexual activities with the murdered victim by way of oral sex the victim was killed, this seems rather strange and curious as many including the main eyewitness vendor is questioning how would these thugs offering strong arms services know of the sexual activities of the now hiding male vendor, there is something else at work I suspect. We have had previous arrangements of this kind without the gang leader per say but it brings into to question the issues of downlow living.

also see: ZEKES TRIAL SHOCKER - Court told of oral sex act with man

Things have gotten so sublime to the ridiculous that even fast food restaurants in Spanish Town proper have once again do not use the friendly engagement term “Can I take your order?” as the ‘order’ in the term is offensive, from the point of view of those who oppose the one order gang’s reign. Most fast food joints now saw or ask “How can I help you?” or “what do you need?” this is like some serious ignorance laden regression to the dark days of wearing the wrong colour in terms of politics or the fist hitting greeting style changed to arm grabbing as fist bumping is seen as a cultural expression to West Kingston so it must be avoided.

Other vendors are circumspect these days and there is a noticeable decline of the ‘county higglers’ who would sleep in their trucks after a long journey from rural parts, do business and then return to their parishes of origins by truck, van or bus on a Sunday morning. I wonder if the dude will return soon as the other remaining vendors are glad for the spinoffs due to his absence seem to genuinely miss him as they seem to have cordial relations despite being competitors. Hope remains while company is true and we hope he comes back out soon. It has not been ascertained if a report was made to the police even as they have raised their visibility in the JUTC bus park and other parts of Spanish Town. How long will this continue is another fundamental question, criminals living big on ill gotten gains at our safety’s expense, now we are hearing of miscreants dressed as students in uniform or even legitimate park wardens either forced to become operatives or disguised as such to collect the extortion on behalf of the gangs while going undetected. The business of lotto scamming in western Jamaica is not divorced from all this as suspected and recently confirmed. Some of the extortionists have been jumping over to the illegal trade to prop up their already cash strong wealth.

The recruitment of gays even with homophobic consequences when things go sour is ongoing as the old perception of gay men especially the effeminate bright ones are said to be able to speak better by phone with intended victims hence closing the deals and ripping off persons who fall prey. Some persons have found themselves on the wrong side of some of the kingpins and their cronies and have had to relocate to other parts as well. Then the crackdown of the task force is showing up the network of already active gays quite plainly, so much so that a recent murder of a pocomania pastor has tongues wagging in St James about sexuality, obeah or necromancy and such.

Hope the vendor can ‘eat a food’ again soon.

More anon

Peace & tolerance

H

also see:

Another phone in body cavity story .. the third in succession, what's up Star News? 

PHONE FOUND IN GANGSTA, DON'S BUTT........a real battyman dis LOL

Phone Found in Prisoner’s Rectum for a Second Time in Lockup 

Man threatens woman for attempting to steal his woman

To out someone because of no sex!

I can’t tell how many times I have heard this nonsense happen and even witnessed one situation at my former residence several years ago while having my own run in subsequently, if someone is not interested in one or in sex for that matter at the time it is requested or being pursued then for God’s sake leave it alone I say, consent is all. Some men especially some ‘thuggy’ or hyper-masculine types feel they can operate on a sex on demand mantra, I must get it when I want it no matter what, even to the point of sexual assault, they call repeatedly with so called ‘lyrics’ similar to how a heterosexual would go after a woman to get her interested and even suggest that he likes men more than women in a bisexual ethos so as to get his intended target’s cooperation.

A St Catherine residence was where this latest episode went down last evening where a young clerk in his mid twenties who lived alone but occasionally entertain buddies and the usual one night stand naughtiness found himself the subject of a ‘loud up’ by a thug who hailed originally from a Kingston address. The man’s claim to fame is supposedly his endowment and he has been praised by many due to its size and look with online photos to boot; he has taken this praise to mean he can now be the cock of the walk it seems and make demands on weaker or softer gay men, especially semi effeminate or effeminate ones, he wants money or to be continuously gifted (need to be mined or financially taken care of) and in return one must pay for the access to the dick.

The impacted man was introduced to the culprit popularly known as ‘Cleveland’ while being tall, muscular and handsome with a deep strong baritone speaking voice his attitude is another matter altogether. How many times have I seen types like this who meet ones approval aesthetically but is rotten to the core behaviourally; one is just not able to find the right mix so easily these days. After the introduction at a party some time before he eventually developed some familiarity over time but started to ask for money and phone credit at first, not a good sign with these hyper-masculine types especially when they are unemployed. They get complacent and once they are entrenched in ones familiarity they stick and stay like a tick hanging on for dear life with expectations that must be met sometimes complete with bravado and embellished bragging rights to colleagues.

Duppy know who fi frighten (Ghosts know who to scare)

‘Cleveland’ who by now had been making visits to the home with another friend by car decided to turn up unannounced at the St Catherine residence, despite he was told and the other friend operates on a prior contact approval protocol as his schedule does not allow for unplanned visits. He turned up none the less and while speaking to the resident gay man as he looked out from his window’s flat ‘Cleveland’ was not pleased with the response he got; the resident while flattered by the attention from ‘Cleveland’ to a certain extent made it clear no intimacy was to be had that night and he should leave, Cleveland in turn accused him of having another man inside the house and that he was being dissed; the man chased him away outlining his prerogative as to who he can allow and not allow in his own house. The culprit did not take kindly to the rebuff and decided to create a scene in the car park of the residence which was met by an almost equally loud and visibly upset resident which lasted for some twenty or so minutes.

Other residents on the block by this time had come out of their homes and both men had an audience; a few of whom hurled the usual homophobic nonsense while others were more concerned with who the man was and were they safe. There were no security guards around but a few residents had remote security services in place by way of panic buttons etc. Others threaten to call the police, ‘Cleveland’ in the meantime sought to use the opportunity to list all the things he knew or suspected of the resident in colourful Jamaican language while seeking to present himself as heterosexual, using the very homophobic terms at his target but the cowering response he expected out of embarrassment was not forthcoming; a part of this report that pleases me most, one has to stand up to some of this nonsense. The young man decided that things had already gone out of whack and he can always relocate if needs be so he in turn made all in earshot that ‘Cleveland’ was also gay and that he wanted money also highlighting that the one time he refused to entertain him he was trying to embarrass him. Some laughter came from the audience section and some reported comments as to how manly the culprit looked with no sign of obvious gayness.

That was when things got more caustic to involve two other males who came out of their houses, one with a machete at one point. ‘Cleveland’ eventually retreated as he soon realised he was fighting a losing battle but left with a threat to the gay resident, claiming he will see him elsewhere to which the man reportedly replied I have nothing to hide. Connected problems on the social front from closeted or behaviourally bisexual men or ‘gay for pay’ types can lead to all kinds of unintended consequences as this matter showed in some respect. I for one made up my mind about those types years ago as hinted in the introduction in dealing with some men who seem to think one is some property or a waling ABM where cash or phones or such must come upon demand or button press, my own case flashed before me when I was residing at Gore Terrace without the gate and security features then but myself and another roommate stood up to a thug who thought he could scare us by outing methods tempered on a homophobic tinge as most of the culprits who try this method seem to think they can get away with it being masculine acting, preying on a perception that most or all gay men are effeminate; that is still scene as a marker for perceived male homosexuals.

The St Catherine man has been advised to relocate eventually just to avoid anything unexpected event from ‘Cleveland’ and possible company.

Peace & tolerance

H

Huge turnout for for Bishop Ricketts and his two sons

also see: Accident victim on flat bridge denies gay rumours and Man says gay rumours need to stop, Bishop in car accident not his boyfriend

Ricardo Makyn/Staff Photographer Some of the mourners

Bishop Stephen Ricketts and his two sons, Chevorn and Sejue Ricketts, who were among six persons who died on July 16 when their motor vehicle plunged into the Rio Cobre, were laid to rest in a grand revival thanksgiving ceremony in Commodore, St Catherine, day before yesterday.

"A only Princess Diana did go home inna dem yah fashion and style yah, so it must be that the Lord has found some favour in this man make him can go home inna them fashion ya," Archbishop Dr Sulanch Lewis, one of the officiating ministers, said.

The Mount Maria Zion True Fellowship Church, where the service was held, could not host the amount of persons who turned up to bid farewell to the bishop and his sons. Many resorted to standing on the outside, where the streets were lined with dozens of vehicles. Multiple police officers were in attendance to ensure crowd control.

Inside the crammed church, the three caskets were propped up on a wooden alter, surrounded by multiple coloured candles. The benches were removed, allowing the revivalist worshippers room to dance and chant, while circling around the caskets.

packed church

Much of the ceremony, which started at 9 a.m. was dedicated to dancing and chanting in tongues around the caskets with the occasional ringing of bells. There were many sporadic instances of persons getting into 'spirit', where they moved about the packed church, seemingly uncontrollably.

At various intervals, the ritual was paused to give persons an opportunity to give their tributes to the deceased. In his tribute, Peter Abrahams, councillor for the Bog Walk division, told the congregation that Bishop Ricketts was his good friend, and a true Labourite.

"Steve is a honest, decent individual. I happened to come in contact with him a couple years ago, doing business in Bog Walk. We were there talking and that's when I realised he was a true Labourite," Abrahams said.

"I remember the last time when Andrew Holness was touring the area, there was a congregation over by the shop next door, not even me could calm down the people because Andrew Holness was late. Steve was the only man to step out of this church, and come over to the bar, and calm the people of the Linstead area. Jamaica, I know, is saddened by this sudden death," he recalled.

Archbishop Lewis, who is from New York, also gave tribute, calling the bishop a good friend, who always spoke the truth. "Before him tell you the truth, him woulda take a little drink. Him always tell me people say things, and I told him people will always talk about us because we are celebrities, and Steve a first- class celebrity so them haffi chat," he said.

bishop's character

Lewis might have been alluding to the fact that tongues have long been wagging about the bishop's character, as many persons had regarded his lifestyle as less than holy. But many of Ricketts family members and some community residents came out in support of him, denying the rumours. The family members claimed that things that were being said in the social and traditional media were very hurtful to them and only served to further taint the bishop's esteem character.

the actual care the men were in

Ricketts along with his sons were finally laid to rest in the Commodore Cemetery minutes after 5 p.m.

RIP brethrens

Peace & tolerance

H

I left him because he was gay says woman ......

So a woman wrote to a tabloid to say she left a man she met because he is gay but she as many others attribute the stereotypical effeminacy as a marker in her engagement with the man

she claimed:

I have nothing against gay people. I say, to each his own. I pride myself on having a very good 'gaydar', meaning I'm very good at telling if someone, especially a guy, is gay. As them talk or make certain movements, I know not to look in their direction for a relationship.

It look like my 'gaydar' wasn't working when my friends introduced me to this guy at a party. He was very good-looking, he dressed nice, smelled good and was a great dancer.

When he asked me out later that week, I didn't hesitate one bit. From the first time me meet him, me notice him have a very high pitched laugh, almost like a girl, but me neva think too hard about it, because nuff people laugh funny, including me, so me neva judge him.

Things did a gwaan good fi a while but me notice him always a spend 'quality' time with him best friend, who happens to be a guy.

Nuff nights me call him and him tell me say him a sleep by him best-friend house.

Mi did feel a way about it, but me neva look too deep into it, at least, it wasn't another girl.

Ova time, a lot of things did start happen wah cause me fi start question his straightness, but what put the icing on the cake was one evening I asked him to follow me to a party, and he told me he can't come that day because it's his best friend's birthday, and he always takes him out to dinner. What kind of man takes another man out to a fancy restaurant for dinner?

From him say that, the signal pon me gaydar nearly pop off, if you get wah me mean! Mi just say, "ok", and, from that day, I cut him off.

I see him engaged to a woman now, but me sorry fi she, because she deh wid a gay man.

ENDS

But seriously isn't this another clear example of how our school system is not preparing folks on sexuality and orientation issues, the man despite being effeminate in her eyes could also be bisexual, who knows? But to simply to arrive at a gay conclusion just because of effeminacy is just plain stupid and ignorant.

Someone needs to tell this woman sexual orientation is bigger than stereotypical attitudes used as profiling to seek out person's perceived choices, practices and liking. 

No contact was left in the article to reach her as I think an intervention is so needed in the matter.

But thanks to people like Reverend Ronnie Thwaites and previous education minister(try) officials we are stuck in backwardness, as evidenced in the HFLE matter some years ago and a refusal to face facts by not distributing condoms in school with a moral panic offensive.

Peace & tolerance

H

also see previous downlow posts from here and sister blog GLBTQJA

The curious case of these "Curious Heaviots" Part 1 2009

Thwaites: Ministry alone cannot deal with homosexuality

Education Minister dismisses counsellors LGBT students issue, says it’s a 'minority' matter

The unofficial practice by churches in using marriage to cure homosexuality 2013

Q&A ON BISEXUALS: Examining Stereotypes and Misconceptions

Tops, bottoms, power differentials & restrictions in gay relations

Been a minute since I have done one of these rants, recent events have forced me to take a look at this issue of role playing again both at the sexual and relational level with gay and bisexual men. Some unlearning if not new thinking is needed out there in terms of definitive sexual role playing and old hardened subscriptions.

Can we just get over roles and what they have come to signify and enjoy gay sex for what it’s worth? ........... a good fuckin’ time!

thug Dream rides thick ass Nubius, Dream is known for also given some good head as well for a 'thug'

I have been evolving on this issue for some time as my tastes in men changed over the years and also in my sexual practices including role play in both relationships and in bed for that matter. Gone are the days for me when I only went for a power top or bottom although I still run into men who are hardened one way or another in terms of what they like in bed; the obsessions with power bottom of agile tops or versatile tops and all the other labels we have had added to our selves and in relations.

We have tended to burrow from the often termed ‘hetero-normative’ constructs to our romantic and non romantic liaisons so one person has to be a ‘woman’ or a man’ in the relationship as it were and we have so allowed such expectations to be so cemented that it impacts on our sub culture that we have names over the years for everything from ‘heaviots’ (more masculine type guys), ‘shottas or thuggy thugs’ (same as prior) to ‘femmeboi’ (effeminate men) ‘trade’ (US version of versatile tops) and so on. So reliant some men have become on these labels that it has come to even impact relationships as evidenced in intimate partner problems and violence; boredom in the bedroom and subsequent cheating and even disastrous ends to couples after a while or at least co-dependency challenges in unions.

Hence challenges in long term unions of sorts when one wants some ass and is refused due to stringent role adherence for example and is not in an open relationship or polyandrous arrangement then one goes outside and gets some leading to all kinds of shit when discovered; added to that are health risks and the still dreaded HIV, remember that? Yeah it still exists in case some folks did not remember.

I have met men for example in my cruising rounds who literally express to me either prior to sex or partnered masturbation or during action that I cannot even touch his ass or explore any crevices lol; such overture in his eyes is interpreted as a move to advancement towards penetration and he feels himself not a woman or playing the role of a woman and such positioning can literally lead to violence as well. The ‘Bad man nuh tek fuck’ mantra or the real man in the game does not take a dick and it makes me wonder sometimes if such hardened positioning has a lot to do with self esteem or acceptance or the lack thereof with most men who think this way. Effeminate men equally are no expected to play any other role in the minds of some MSM as a passive or submissive partner so to speak, so he cannot, dare not or should not even think or develop any requests for a ‘top’ role; in other words do not ask for no ass as the masculine partner must be the one to push the stick and so it must remain.

Some of us may need to unlearn these strict roles or beliefs we have so allowed to be entrenched in us, I for one cannot deal with a man for long who is stuck in a rut on this issue on role play and is devoid of sexual exploration, apart from the excitement that is needed to keep me interested as I get bored easily adjustments are needed to keep the relationship or multiple hook-ups, why should I just be laying there or bent over doggy style to just satisfy him and his narrow sexual desire when I want some ass too? I am not expecting him to always bend over or open up every time I ask or want some. We really need to start unlearning some of these attitudes we have either adopted or reinforced in us from our hetero-family structure rearing where roles are clearly defined for men and women and that family structure.

More and more I am finding and hearing persons discussing such matters openly on social media as relational matters are more open if ever so slowly and persons settle down in unions or marriage and the boredom sets in as partners feel restricted in their arrangements with one refusing to budge. Even same gender loving women are having this issue being raised alot, it recently came up for air in one of my Facebook groups where such openness is allowed. The business of spicing up long term relationships brings the role play issue to light. I remember suggesting to a so called thug who was younger than I sometime ago to have more dick for dick sex and he refused whole heartedly. He said once in a moment is OK but he wont but when I raised it in the context of pleasure between us and not a matter of role playing defining power differentials in our union he has been more receptive to me as of late.

The fear or near effemophobia in terms of feeling the weaker one akin to receptive anal sex role playing is real and is a block to just good clean uninhibited fun between men. My thug friend and I now spend so much more time in bed exploring he likes it and is not just how we started out as my bottoming as it were and he dicking me down (although it felt good none the less lol) but now that he allows me more to mount him so to speak added with other anal playing action such as fingering, ice cubes inserting and stimulating and so one while incorporating anal hygiene routines as part of our sexual pleasure has worked. For example when I want to fleet or I want or request him to fleet we actually do it together occasionally and he was not aware of the fleet process in detail so it has helped in raising awareness on his part whilst enhancing our sexual activities. He also is not so hung up on topping me and insistence on same. He also has come down from the refusal to perform oral/penile sex on me although he rims me every now and again and I in return.

I have no doubt that privately for some men who refuse to switch roles in bed with a casual partner may bottom for a main partner or so which also goes back to my questioning self esteem issues for some MSM or truthfulness in terms of sexual health and enjoyment. Of course different men stimulate different feelings and responses as well obviously one would not play the same role or have fantasies similar to the man before or in the case of multiple partnering such as cruisers, one hook-up would not have the same interest or reciprocate with the same outcomes sexually. The man I top in one sense I would not do so with another as it depends what attracts me to him or how we started out sexually and grow henceforth.

My other more thuggy typed hook-ups are not so patient or willing to adjust their stance; I don’t know if it is the fear of loss of reputation on the network as we all know how the grapevine system works with cruisers and if it gets out there a perceived top bottomed then he may be ridiculed or blacklisted by some who may reduce him to being a ‘woman’ or words to the effect may come ‘yow him a gal, him mek man fuck him or him tek buddy’ (hey he allowed himself to be screwed) and by virtue of that he is no longer seen as a ‘man’ on the block and somehow he is seen as diminished and even perceived as a non or lesser performer sexually; so he is unworthy of sexual contact or weaker than the other fellas.

The power differentials attach themselves in a sense with role play as similar to heterosexual relations; a woman who has to do household chores and is expected to provide pampering and other services or activities and of course sex in exchange for financial security and a roof over her head and she must not fail whilst in most instances provide children as evidence of the union being productive. Match that with MSM unions where the ‘bottom’ is expected to do the chores, keep house, not have any other masculine men as friends as it may be seen as a threat to the main man (jealousy can and has led to intimate partner violence) in exchange for housing, security especially in our homo-negative environment housing security can have sexual considerations as attachments and some accede to same in order just to have a roof and some comfort. Such considerations can come with strict demands so the more powered man can make demands and if they are not met it comes under pain of relocation or loss of income or a comfortable lifestyle in a good space.

Nuff said fi now yah man, in the meantime check out some previous rantings and podcasts I had done on related matters.

Free up di ting; live and let live

Peace & tolerance

H

also see and listen:

Public Homophobia (Verbal) vs a Coded Come On Examined - Tips on Reading the Signs 17.12.15

Heteronormative Role Play, Power Differentials & Intimate Partner Violence in LGBT Groups 07.11.15

Bad Man Nuh F*** Batty (Masculine Men Don't F*** Ass) (The Fear of The Feminine in JA) 16.04.15 

Ugh! That gay thug hustlers entitlement problem again!


Man beaten for unfulfilled promises in DL liaison

Out a Road: DJs who "hit out" hiding something? 2010

The drip dry boyfriend vs. the ever increasing Jamaican Metro sexual 2010

The curious case of these "Curious Heaviots" Part 2 2009

Man beaten for unfulfilled promises in DL liaison

Yet another young gay man is having to nurse superficial wounds though they are healing slowly after a thrashing from another man after what is confirmed to be a down low relationship gone bad as promises reportedly made to a so called ‘thug’ were not met after they engaged in sexual activities in a sort of exchange in a short lived liasion. It is sad that our young gay brethren keep making mistakes judging these characters or hustlers whose only goals to be in it to win it or as an old friend of mine said years ago ‘suck & fuck for a buck’ one has to be careful how we end up creating a monster when we fed and bred it to become such, then it turns around and bites us in the ass and end of as victims.

Some persons only learn the lesson when it is too late.

The victim a twenty three year old call centre agent from St Catherine had been introduced to the ‘thug’ via social media and a series of conversations ensued earlier this year, according to a reliable source close to the case the thug had told the 23 year old that he was not really on the scene that much and his experience in gay sex was limited, I suppose that was the cause to have victim becoming more interested as the concept of fresh meat is usually a trigger for such or increased interest. The thug was said to be cautious and hesitant to go all the way with the other man in terms of prolonged lovemaking and only kept it at a minimum.

The back and forth between the two lasted for some time with even warnings from others looking on the situation and the victim was told to either avoid the thug or tread very very carefully but the advice was not taken (typical of some of us) and promises were made to provide material things and money including a high end phone that was bought for the ‘thug’ who is said to hail from a certain depressed community in Kingston and such hyper-masculine types are most protective of their machismo, secrecy and have expectations when promises are made with awful reactions as previous matters have taught when such promises are not met.

The men continued their quiet and slow intimacy and it was said that after a major session their issue of the promises made prior came up where the young man failed to properly answer, he reached out to another friend as things started to get verbally violent at first as the thug made his demands upset that he was not gifted the items or cash promised. The incident took place at a friend’s house where a lyme was in progress in July, the young man was present and he had spoken to the thug over the phone who eventually found his way to the event; it was there things got out of control as the angry thug blurted the cause of his anger and that he felt justified in thrashing the victim despite patrons at the event urged him not to and threatened to call the police. The thug said they can go ahead as he would have revealed that he was tricked by the twenty year.

Several slaps, shoves and kicks later and a club with an empty drink bottle later with a slight cut bleeding the upset man made verbal threats if he did not receive the contents of the promises made by the victim. Sadly this is a regular, yes I said regular occurrence with some of our brothers as persons turn goo-goo ga-ga when he think we have a ‘catch’ or some heaviot (hypermasculine) as a partner if for however short the liaison is. Engaging such guys come with consequences if one does not play their cards right. I for one would not have engaged that dude sexually speaking and allow him to travel to his own comfort zone without pushing him with any satisfaction in the end.

I do not believe in promising these dudes either as one usually never stop gifting them once they get their tentacles into you until it gets to a kind of chronic entitlement where he feels he must always get his demands met when he asks and quickly too leading to all kinds of problems once there is resistance. Threats to out persons sometimes creeps in as a tool to keep such victims in check or in line to deliver promises as persons fear the embarrassment and displacement that may occur with little recourse of rebuilding one’s life easily. In the same breath if one is going to engage such types lay the rules down from early or set the game board from the beginning without any hint of financial gifts or material ones in exchange for every sex act done or for conditionality for his company.

If one wants a ‘thug’ one must know how to play the game of one could be hurt or killed even if one just makes a mistake or change the parameters of the liaison.

A word to the wise is sufficient as we have numerous cases over the years to rely upon where we have lost colleagues from such fallouts from aggrieved thugs, extortionists (often starts out innocently then grows) and never satisfied parties who demand more and more.

Peace and tolerance

H

Hiding in marriages ................

photo from whatsonxiamen online

Downlow living makes news but sadly such is the reality when persons are forced into marriages especially when older relatives keep asking when is it gonna happen or requests for grandchildren or if it is a church situation where elders or clergy emphasize no sex prior to marriage; then the union runs into disaster but here is a Star News story on the matter.

J'can man makes shocking confession on YouTube

Shanice Watson, STAR Writer

A Jamaican man who is now married to another has earned the ire of many after revealing shocking details about his homosexual lifestyle in a candid interview.

The man, who gave his name as Vincent, admitted that while living in Jamaica, he married a woman solely to mask that fact that he was gay. He also boasted about the many luxurious assets his homosexual relationships have afforded him.

Vincent, who admitted he lost his virginity to another male at 14, said he knew he was gay from a young age, but had to marry a woman to hide his true sexual orientation.

"I recognised that I was gay from about 12 years old. I used to hide my life. I eventually got married to a female and had a kid. You know, in Jamaica, it's a homophobic country. They just don't believe in men and men, but that (homosexuality) is my whole being. I always like to see young nice guys and I always like to see cute guys and all of that," he said.

He also admitted that he frequently cheated on his wife with his boyfriends and often imagined he was having sex with men during sexual intercourse with her.

Vincent claims he is a "natural" gay and, therefore, does not pursue homosexuality for financial gains. However, he boasted about the many luxuries he attained through his sexuality.

"I never see a woman offer to buy me a car. I received two cars out of a man. Money, I get hundreds of thousands of dollars from men; hundred thousand, two hundred thousand, five hundred thousand, new brand car. For my birthday, I get anything I want," he said while snapping his fingers between phrases.

He said that the gifts came from both gay and straight men, including a jealous Jamaican policeman. "He is a very nice police guy. He is cute and muscular. He's just what I wanted, but he wanted to shoot me. He was jealous over me because I was with another guy."

Vincent said he migrated to the United States and is employed in the medical field. He lives with his boyfriend. Even though same sex marriages are legal in the US, some Jamaicans who saw the interview on YouTube were disgruntled.

Melisha May: Look pon him ugly r... to! A dat mi caa tek wid nuff a dem. Jump inna b... and a deh wid di woman at di same time!

Msaleciavaz: Let me shut my mouth since I ain't got anything nice to say.

also see:

The unofficial practice by churches in using marriage to cure homosexuality

How I found out my husband was gay 2012

On the down low: Men sleeping with men - another view

Sexual Orientation questions in premarital counselling

Can it really?

Love 101FM Twitter handle comments

The matter of sexual orientation of prospective heterosexual couples was highlighted earlier today as what has been described as concerns raised by some members of the cloth in recent times where new marriages simply end in disaster due to the lack of disclosure or deception on the part of one or both persons involved. Everything from being on the downlow to pressure from the church leadership or family members who demand marriage and procreation as proof of normality or legitimacy as it were were covered. Previous discussions on this subject tend to have a leaning towards reparative therapy but thankfully this time it was more balanced and did not go there.

What are your thoughts on whether couples should be asked about their sexual orientation during counselling in preparation for marriage?

— Love 101 FM JAMAICA (@LoveFMJAMAICA) June 3, 2015

A question on Facebook by Love101FM’s Morning Watch showed via the respondents that persons hide indeed to cover up their true identity for all kinds of motives, other persons hinted to a lie detector test while others suggest the counsellors should not ask the questions on sexual orientation and should be left for the couple to be honest with each other prior to entering the union for purposes of trust and longevity of the marriage.

Facebook comments on sexual orientation in pre-marriage counselling June 3, 2015

Among the standard questions put forward to perspective couples are those of:

Religion

Family

Sexuality

Finances

Compatibility and so on

Should the counselling or marriage officer put sexual orientation squarely on the table?

Should someone who is found out to be gay/bisexual (even if the partner agrees) be advised to go ahead with the marriage?

Why do churches pressure their members into marriage and expect not to have problems emerge with downlow living given that the very church’s attitude overall forces persons to remain in the closet.

Reverend Marvia Laws raised the issue this morning on her aforementioned show given also a now deleted blog post on a blog ran by a Christian woman (maybe unbeknownst to Rev Laws) was of concern to me as well who was said to have experienced a breakdown in her marriage just days after when her former husband was found to be bisexual but never disclosed. Panellists in the discussion were two Christian marriage counsellors of the Anglican and Baptist tradition from western Jamaica Rev Carl Henlyn of the Gregory Park circuit of Baptist churches and the very Reverend Annette Brown of St Augustine’s Anglican Church in Coral Gardens Montego Bay.

The very Reverend Annette Brown raised among others things the following:

The unearthing of various sexual orientations and practices

Prospective couples must be aware of what is occurring or the sexual orientation of a potential spouse so as to avoid marrying a homosexual or bisexual

Difficulty in raising the subject with the parties directly given our cultural context and it would be better to raise it in a one on one session first before bringing both parties together if it becomes a cause for concern

During counselling persons are not honest and then the marriage dies thereafter

Sections in the solemn declaration in her church tradition it reads to the effect: ‘I know not of any lawful impediment why I should not be married to this person.’ She also stressed that during the session she goes through the ceremony itself and its aspects with relation to commitment and vows. Reverend Brown uses that phase of the dialogue to raise sexual orientation and also on the form that the parties are asked to fill out it is also raised but the results are not shared with the other party and is only the pervue of her unless it becomes absolutely necessary to raise it with both persons

Some women do marry gay/biesexual men for reasons of their own low libido and seeing his interest in the same sex will distract him away from her and not have her to be obligated for sexual relations as a full time heterosexual husband may be. Once a child comes into the picture they still stay together for years for purposes of the kid(s) and the wife’s low sex drive. She continued that some wives may not want to have sex all the time and so if the man goes out it is not like having sex with a woman hence they don’t feel ‘cheated’ on or that the marriage is in any threat. The business of women claiming they like having homosexual male friends as they do not feel threatened also factored when raised by Reverend Laws (show host) as societal practice women are usually hounded by men for sex or so on.

Reverend Brown raises other issues such as a previous marriage or relations and so on before getting to the sexual orientation bit as she feels that is her way of breaking the ice in the session. She asks the couple to speak to each other and she observes body language etc. She says it not easy to say to someone if you’re homosexual while assuming everyone who comes in for pre-marriage counselling is heterosexual.

Probing is required with excellent listening and perception skills as persons are good at telling you what they want you to hear for purposes of camouflaging any secrets.

A question on her standard form also asks of sexual history or knowledge of it with respect to one perspective partner: “if you find that your spouse is interested in someone else of the same gender how would you respond, how would you take the marriage?

On the matter of confessions and persons who claim they are healed or restored; or that they do not need to repeat it in a session as pre-marriage counselling she says she deals with that on an individual basis, she mentioned the issue of boredom and experimentation with same gender sex with a possibility of repetition in the life of the marriage as opposed to someone who is innately homosexual; she also raised concerns about persons using marriage as a cover from pressure from society (she never mentioned church pressure though).

She insisted her role is not to say ‘don’t’ to couples but alert them to dangers that may appear down the line, she uses hypothetical examples and see how the parties respond. She also said there have been postponements after sessions and issues are worked out. She also uses prayer before during and after the sessions.

Reverend Karl Henlin added among other things:

Presented an example of a couple who were considered ‘pure’ (no sexual contact prior to the wedding) in the church but soon after the man’s true sexual identity was discovered much to the dismay of the wife although he had testified he was ‘healed’ or changed. The woman was enthralled by his chivalrous behaviour in courtship to her but he really was struggling with living a double life.

He uses standard form that raises 8 questions to include hints to sexual orientation, after getting the answers he tailors what he wants to probe but he has not asked directly if someone is a homosexual either in one on one sessions or with parties present together.

A question asked by him in sessions is if five years or so down the road it is discovered by you that your partner is gay or bisexual or was involved in same gender sex in the past what would you do or how would you respond? As part of probing any suspicious issues.

In as far as conversion and or persons testifying healing of homosexuality he highlighted a case where a man and woman who came in for sessions, the man claimed he was healed and the woman accepted his new found dispensation but he (Rev Henlin) could not overrule the agreement with the parties deciding to go ahead with the marriage despite the full knowledge of the man’s supposed previous same gender sexual practices as brought out in the session. The wife three days into the marriage called back in consternation claiming “It” has returned and that she wanted out.

He has had occasions where he has had to extricate himself from certain situations knowing that issues are not settled or some pending doom seems to be on the horizon but the couple insists on pursuing the marriage anyway.

In as far as abuse presenting itself as a concern or in the sexual history with a same gender accused he says he wants to know if the other party is aware, probe if any prior counselling interventions; if not referrals and recommends waiting a while by putting the pending marriage on hold until that matter is dealt with or a full withdrawal.

More of my concerns:

The church tradition still has this notion of young Christians should not be single and that they should marry as soon as possible even when the parties do not know each other well; there is also an insistence of such young persons marrying within the denomination and definitely not a non-Christian.

Pressure from older family members can be over bearing as well (from personal experience years ago) questions such as where is your girlfriend? When are you going to have a child or we want grandchildren from parents as evidence of continuity of the bloodline I suppose or the procreation.

There is going to be more down-low marriage disasters I fear given the stance taken by some vocal religious groups on their anti homosexual campaigns, persons are forced underground or feel a need to have a desire to confirm to hetero-nomative to be accepted so persons rather hide just to avoid the scrutiny and profiling.

Then again honesty is so crucial and the jury seems to be still out as to whether bisexual men or gay men who find themselves in heterosexual unions should actually disclose, some bisexual activists say no it is not or should not be a concern while others say yes and do it from early in the courtship so as to avoid later troubles. Heterosexual women mostly tend to respond with disdain when discussing the matter or often say I suspected something.

Old beliefs abound:

also see:
Can counselling 'fix' my gay husband? (Jamaica Observer)

How I found out my husband was gay

On the down low: Men sleeping with men - another view

The unofficial practice by churches in using marriage to cure homosexuality

Peace and tolerance

H